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	<title>Comments for First Principles</title>
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		<title>Comment on Graph Powers by sanket</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/graph-powers/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>sanket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-101</guid>
		<description>Shabnam:

Sorry about the delay in responding.

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about multiplying the adjacency matrices of two different graphs. Whereas graph power is about multiplying the adjacency matrix by itself. So, in case of multiplying two different adjacency matrices, we need to be clear about the semantics of the operation.

In case of graph power, $G^p$, what we are basically doing is: (1) computing a transitive closure of node reachability up to a level $p$ and (2) adding whenever a node is reachable from another in p or less (transitive) steps, we add an edge to make it a direct path. This reduces the diameter.

Now, when you say multiplying two networks, are you talking about a graph product such as, say, graph composition (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GraphComposition.html)? In that case, the product is a new network, with a different number of nodes. If not, can you explain how the multiplication works?

Kevin:

Thanks for the comments. Again, I am a bit stuck regarding the multiplication of two networks. Perhaps you can explain with an example how this works.

Your other point is also interesting -- taking only $A^k$. In other words, adding an edge only if there is a k-length path (and not where, $1 &lt; pathlength &lt;= k$). What happens do diameter when you short-circuit all k-length paths in a network, is an interesting question. This has an associated question -- can we determine bounds on the number of k-length paths that exist in a network? I had investigated these questions a little. I call it the power* operation. I only have very elementary results though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shabnam:</p>
<p>Sorry about the delay in responding.</p>
<p>If I understand you correctly, you are talking about multiplying the adjacency matrices of two different graphs. Whereas graph power is about multiplying the adjacency matrix by itself. So, in case of multiplying two different adjacency matrices, we need to be clear about the semantics of the operation.</p>
<p>In case of graph power, $G^p$, what we are basically doing is: (1) computing a transitive closure of node reachability up to a level $p$ and (2) adding whenever a node is reachable from another in p or less (transitive) steps, we add an edge to make it a direct path. This reduces the diameter.</p>
<p>Now, when you say multiplying two networks, are you talking about a graph product such as, say, graph composition (<a href="http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GraphComposition.html)?" rel="nofollow">http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GraphComposition.html)?</a> In that case, the product is a new network, with a different number of nodes. If not, can you explain how the multiplication works?</p>
<p>Kevin:</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments. Again, I am a bit stuck regarding the multiplication of two networks. Perhaps you can explain with an example how this works.</p>
<p>Your other point is also interesting &#8212; taking only $A^k$. In other words, adding an edge only if there is a k-length path (and not where, $1 &lt; pathlength &lt;= k$). What happens do diameter when you short-circuit all k-length paths in a network, is an interesting question. This has an associated question &#8212; can we determine bounds on the number of k-length paths that exist in a network? I had investigated these questions a little. I call it the power* operation. I only have very elementary results though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Graph Powers by Kevin C.</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/graph-powers/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-100</guid>
		<description>Shabnam,

Unfortunately, I&#039;m not sure that just multiplying the adjacency matrices would lead to a diameter reduction.

For example, what would happen if both of the original networks were complete bipartite on the same partition of vertices?  In this case both of the original graphs have diameter two, but the product of their adjacency matrices corresponds to two disjoint complete graphs, and doesn&#039;t even have finite diameter.  

In the original post this was dodged because the graph power was defined by taking $A^k+A^{k-1}+\dots+A$ instead of just $A^k$.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shabnam,</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I&#8217;m not sure that just multiplying the adjacency matrices would lead to a diameter reduction.</p>
<p>For example, what would happen if both of the original networks were complete bipartite on the same partition of vertices?  In this case both of the original graphs have diameter two, but the product of their adjacency matrices corresponds to two disjoint complete graphs, and doesn&#8217;t even have finite diameter.  </p>
<p>In the original post this was dodged because the graph power was defined by taking $A^k+A^{k-1}+\dots+A$ instead of just $A^k$.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Graph Powers by Shabnam</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/graph-powers/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Shabnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-99</guid>
		<description>Hello. I just read about your interestng graph powers. I ran into your article because I was looking for something similar but not identical. My question is: What would be the new diameter if the adjacency matrices of two strongly connected networks (non-zero diagonals) are multiplied? The two networks are strongly connceted and both have the same diameter m, and the same number of nodes. So would the resulting network (matrix) have the diamter ceil(m/2)?

On a related question, what would happen if one of the networks has diameter less than m, like k &lt; m. (I know that in this case the resulting diameter can not be greater than k.

Or if you know of a reference that I can go to for further information?

I sincerely appreciate your response/commets.

Shabnam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello. I just read about your interestng graph powers. I ran into your article because I was looking for something similar but not identical. My question is: What would be the new diameter if the adjacency matrices of two strongly connected networks (non-zero diagonals) are multiplied? The two networks are strongly connceted and both have the same diameter m, and the same number of nodes. So would the resulting network (matrix) have the diamter ceil(m/2)?</p>
<p>On a related question, what would happen if one of the networks has diameter less than m, like k &lt; m. (I know that in this case the resulting diameter can not be greater than k.</p>
<p>Or if you know of a reference that I can go to for further information?</p>
<p>I sincerely appreciate your response/commets.</p>
<p>Shabnam</p>
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		<title>Comment on Infinite trees have no leaves by sanket</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/infinite-trees-have-no-leaves/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>sanket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-92</guid>
		<description>Joe: You are right. I had missed that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: You are right. I had missed that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Graph Powers by sanket</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/graph-powers/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>sanket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Joe: Thanks for the input!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: Thanks for the input!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Graph Powers by Joe</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/graph-powers/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 01:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Another way of powering up a graph is to take the Kronecker product of its adjacency matrix. There are quite a few open questions about this operation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another way of powering up a graph is to take the Kronecker product of its adjacency matrix. There are quite a few open questions about this operation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Infinite trees have no leaves by Joe</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/infinite-trees-have-no-leaves/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 01:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-89</guid>
		<description>A single vertex is a tree. Your claim that there are at least two vertices of degree one in a tree is false for this counterexample.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A single vertex is a tree. Your claim that there are at least two vertices of degree one in a tree is false for this counterexample.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An interesting sequence by Goodsteins&#8217; Theorem &#171; First Principles</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/an-interesting-sequence/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Goodsteins&#8217; Theorem &#171; First Principles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 11:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=41#comment-74</guid>
		<description>[...] Filed under: generic, maths &#8212; sanket @ 11:16 am Tags: goodstein&#039;s theorem, sequence  In the previous post, I had talked about a sequence of numbers and it&#8217;s convergence. Such sequences are called [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Filed under: generic, maths &#8212; sanket @ 11:16 am Tags: goodstein&#8217;s theorem, sequence  In the previous post, I had talked about a sequence of numbers and it&#8217;s convergence. Such sequences are called [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Some interesting properties of adjacency matrices by sri</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/some-interesting-properties-of-adjacency-matrices/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>sri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 06:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=25#comment-68</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see what is the problem if the matrix shows how many paths are there between nodes, rather than just a 1 or 0. Just set all non-zero values to 1 and you get the H or G or whatever you call them. It is like evaluating the if condition in C: 0 means false, non-zero means true.

Let&#039;s not go into citation mania and name dropping please.. *feels irritated*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see what is the problem if the matrix shows how many paths are there between nodes, rather than just a 1 or 0. Just set all non-zero values to 1 and you get the H or G or whatever you call them. It is like evaluating the if condition in C: 0 means false, non-zero means true.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not go into citation mania and name dropping please.. *feels irritated*</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question by Siddhartha Reddy</title>
		<link>http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/question/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Siddhartha Reddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://1stprinciples.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-64</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it is possible to answer your question in as definite terms as you seek. This is mainly because the term &#039;computer scientist&#039; begs to be defined precisely; each person has his/her own definition. A discussion of this sort would be akin to a bunch of people discussing about *the* elephant when in fact each of them is seeing a different elephant.

With the above disclaimer in place, let me say that _I_ think that the most important (excuse me for using such a phrase here) skill needed for computer scientists -- more than most other disciplines -- is a thorough understanding of and the capability to think in and apply /logic/. Please note that I say that this is _needed_, I am not trying to imply that computer scientists actually do have this (or not, for that matter.)

As far as your question about the &#039;core&#039; computer sciences areas is concerned, I think it would be incorrect to classify anything as core or not. Although somethings are clearly more core (sic) than others, I think any attempt to narrow down on the list of core things cannot be completely fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it is possible to answer your question in as definite terms as you seek. This is mainly because the term &#8216;computer scientist&#8217; begs to be defined precisely; each person has his/her own definition. A discussion of this sort would be akin to a bunch of people discussing about *the* elephant when in fact each of them is seeing a different elephant.</p>
<p>With the above disclaimer in place, let me say that _I_ think that the most important (excuse me for using such a phrase here) skill needed for computer scientists &#8212; more than most other disciplines &#8212; is a thorough understanding of and the capability to think in and apply /logic/. Please note that I say that this is _needed_, I am not trying to imply that computer scientists actually do have this (or not, for that matter.)</p>
<p>As far as your question about the &#8216;core&#8217; computer sciences areas is concerned, I think it would be incorrect to classify anything as core or not. Although somethings are clearly more core (sic) than others, I think any attempt to narrow down on the list of core things cannot be completely fair.</p>
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